SONOMA COAST CLIMBING ACCESS ALERT!!!!!

Issues related to climbing access and safety.

Postby Dodrill » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:45 pm

Indeed you are correct. My speculation is that the person (I'll refrain from naming names at this point) is a lichen lover type- also on the Sierra Club BoDs I believe. She was at the meeting last year in Jenner. She was the most hostile toward climbing at the Jenner meeting with SCSBAC and seems to have a grudge against a certain local guide who has his groups rappel off the South Rock -a feature which is covered with delicate lichens and succulents.


I have a meeting scheduled with the Exec. Dir. of SCR, and plans to meet with Breck soon. I'd like to have a face to face talk with this other person as well and see if we can come to some point of level ground from which to look at this issue. I want to listen to her, hear her concerns first hand, and discuss them.
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby Dodrill » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:34 pm

Thanks to those who are following this subject, even if you're just lurking. There is some work being done behind the scenes to crank forward on this project. I've been in touch with powers-that-be and am writing a letter that hopefully we can have a ton of climbers sign in support. Sort of a petition, more of a position statement from all of us. So, call this the public comment period. Read up. Educate yourselves, and express your viewpoint ASAP.

I think if we can all agree, choose our words wisely, and present ourselves with solidarity, it will have a much greater effect than each of us writing and acting as individuals.

If you don't feel comfortable writing in this forum, feel free to contact me directly at: photo(at)jerrydodrill(dot)com.
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby rimfounder » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:02 pm

After scanning the previous post I am desirous to comment that there is a historic climbing presence at Sunset rocks. That as a ligatiment user group we have every right to be there climbing on those formations.

As to commercial use comment: the benefit to, mostly kids, that get introduced to climbing there is immeasurable. And certainly out weighs limited thinking individuals that would like to see a closure to that end. If a passerby can understand the how much self esteem and personal growth a new comer to the sport (especially the youth) gets out of their experience at those rocks, maybe, they would not be so selfish as to think the area was for their personal experience only.

The bottom line is that we all get to share the open space with all user groups weather we our selves enjoy that particular activity or not. This is in the charter of the parks service and they need to adhere to it. There is certainly a way that we can climb etc. and still preserve the integrity within those means.

It is impossible to go for a hike without leaving a footprint. Does that mean that those that are offended by what remains get to call the shots and ban going to the outdoors. Living in a bubble so as to not disturb our environment is not living. Everyone can not have a first time isolated solo experience at our coast and elsewhere.

Personally I think that climbers have much respect for our personal areas. And are willing to protect it and their sport.
rimfounder
Hopeless Cyberclimber
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:59 am
Location: Earth

Postby Dodrill » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:07 am

Good points H. I totally agree. Climbing is a legit part of the history of these rocks, and a valid user group. As for kids groups, climbing certainly gave me an optimistic new perspective at about age 14. :)

What do you think about a study of users at the site, and how would you respond to land managers regarding actual or perceived impacts, and the suggested permit for all climbers?

I feel the need to make a distinction to them between general public climbers and commercial/educational "groups." There is already a permit required for the latter. My interest is in preserving access for the former. We'll each have our interests, but need to decide where we stand.

There is certainly a way that we can climb etc. and still preserve the integrity within those means.

Agreed. And "impacts" must be addressed. What are you proposing?
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby mr summit » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:35 am

since these access issues have been brought up lately i have had a few things come up in my life that reminded me how important these rocks are for everyone. a new friend i just met via email told me how her 16 year old son would probably be on the streets or in jail or worse if it were not for finding and falling in love with climbing at vertex and hoods courses at the sunset boulders. she was thanking me for my book (and all of us climbers) for helping her family stay together (im not making this up). that one letter just got me. along with jerry and rimfounder and my friend shazinky they all reminded me that people are getting so much from the time they spend climbing on these rocks. the climbing courses help kids and everyone do something unforgettable and very good for themselves without hurting really anything more than some grass on the trail. to even consider closing down climbing on these rocks officially outrages me now.
Last edited by mr summit on Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mr summit
Old Skool Crack Masta'
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: earth

Postby rimfounder » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:07 am

Chris your the man.
You have always been a supporter to The Cause. Thanks for the words. I as well as Vertex take our work (and love) very seriously when it comes to turning people onto climbing.
I know first hand too, the benefits that especially the youth get from those very rocks, these ignorant no-lifers want to shut off from them.
rimfounder
Hopeless Cyberclimber
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:59 am
Location: Earth

Postby Moji » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:23 pm

I think we should NOT lay low. Instead I think we should make a clear, STRONG presence RIGHT NOW. Start applying a long steady insistence on the right to use the park recreationally without being detained or denied in any way, as every other user or interest group unless there is some HARD data to suggest otherwise.

I really believe this is a hate situation: profiling, discriminatory, uneducated and uninformed as to who climbers are and what the sport entails, how it impacts and does not impact the area.

I think we would have fewer problems if our sport was motor driven!
User avatar
Moji
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: real time

Postby Dodrill » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:03 am

I think we should NOT lay low. Instead I think we should make a clear, STRONG presence RIGHT NOW. Start applying a long steady insistence on the right to use the park recreationally without being detained or denied in any way, as every other user or interest group unless there is some HARD data to suggest otherwise.


I agree with this.


Moji wrote:I really believe this is a hate situation: profiling, discriminatory, uneducated and uninformed as to who climbers are and what the sport entails, how it impacts and does not impact the area.


Um... Hate situation? Ok. If you say so. That seems a bit dramatic to me. So far I've found everyone I've contacted to be friendly and open to a dialog about the topic. I believe we should take a calm diplomatic route, but do it quickly and with many voices. Education is a good way to approach those who are "uneducated and uninformed," as you say, about climbing.
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby Dodrill » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:13 am

H-
"ignorant no lifers?" Remember, this is a public forum. Lets try to keep from slander.

I completely support the efforts and good you have done for mankind and the environment by introducing our youth to the outdoors through climbing.


Chris- Thanks for sharing your sentiments. They touch close to home. Without climbing I'd have likely been an at-risk teenager. This is one on the non-apparent benefits of the climbing experience.
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby cvd » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:13 pm

Agree with Jerry's calls for moderation; righteous anger feels good, but it is rarely constructive. In situations like these it is important to distinguish between ignorance and malice ... 95% of the time people are simply ignorant and would benefit from being educated in a diplomatic way. People are much more likely to respond to this approach than getting "in their faces", which just tends to make people defensive and entrenches them further in their position.

I'm not saying don't get emotional about this, there's nothing wrong with a little passion to motivate action ... but until you have ALL the facts it's better not to resort to slander in public. Remember, anyone can google the RIM club or climbing North Bay and possibly hit on this very thread ...
Just Breathe!
User avatar
cvd
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Rohnert Park

Postby Moji » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:51 pm

been there two years ago .. and that's why you see some comments in the Board Discussions

this is not a private issue happening in someone's personal backyard. This is a public access issue for which Sonoma County is known thruout the region to favor private interest (ranching and ag) when it comes to open space, to the point of defrauding the public re how "open" is open space, is or is it a subsidy for cattle grazing. Different issue. This is now the state park system, deciding access differently for certain groups of people. When we first started meeting two years ago (and informally prior) the idea was that "climbers" cause graffitti, trail damage, chaos of different kinds, look bad , appear economically disadvantaged or poor. This is mostly because the members of Stewards and Citizen's council had no climbers on their board, and didn't know anyone who climbed. The park rangers had no experience with climbing. These last two facts are still true. It appears that this is a real case of profiling, discrimination, and lack of hard data in favor of opinion of a few. If climbers forego the channels for public protest, ie letters, phone calls, showing up at the meetings, writing your representative, you will find access diminished or ended. Do you remember SAVE THE BEACHES, where the park system attempted to charge surfers to surf or beach goers for walking on the beach? Only a really organized effort changed that. This will require a similar effort that should be public now, not after changes have been put in place. So far this issue has been way too personal in my opinion.
Last edited by Moji on Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Moji
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: real time

Postby Dodrill » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:56 pm

Please keep in mind that there are some different players now, new park supe, etc, and we have to start a fresh relationship with them. The past is the past. I'm looking toward the future.
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby Moji » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:10 pm

I kinda don't care who they are because I think its important to use the democratic process, document facts, use the channels that are put in place for this sort of thing. People lie, misrepresent, put you off with a smile... don't want to wake up 3 months from now saying "hey! I thought those guys understood me??"
User avatar
Moji
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: real time

Postby Dodrill » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:40 pm

So what are you proposing?
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby Moji » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:04 am

I think we should follow a lot of your suggestions: closely go over the document asap, pick out the most significant issues, create talking points, and post all over every forum we can find, really let people know what's going on out there. I think we should post contact info for the appropriate gov agencies including state legislature, prepare a flyer, contact Access Fund ( I bet they have a kit we can use). have Alex go ahead with the clean up a t Sunset Rocks for Sept, hang out at the rocks and climb. I think we should write up some sample letters we can provide to others and perhaps set up a website (note Friend of Pinnacles website for their climbing related issues, maybe talk to them,link is somewhere in the forum for when they were seeking public input.). I think you should continue to be a contact/ spokesperson out there if it doesn't impact your business poorly (watch out on that one) but the goal should be to get as many interested people as possible aware of the situation right now because its almost too late. I think we should use every possible means of public communication.

then we should create a huge cardboard cutout of a mastadon and stand it near the rocks, viewable from HWY 1 with a banner across it that says"Climbers for Mastadons," next the t-shirts.

actually I think the mastadon issue is a red herring. the real issue is access and climbing.
User avatar
Moji
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: real time

Postby rimfounder » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:12 pm

Its never too late to make a comment. and express to the powers that be your thoughts. Here is one for the state parks that supervise Sunset Rocks. If you can please send a comment. If ou can think of any other addresses we could send a message let us know.
Send comment about climbiongn access to.....
planning@parks.ca.gov
rimfounder
Hopeless Cyberclimber
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:59 am
Location: Earth

Postby Dodrill » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:38 am

I'm not sure who that address goes to, but if you look at the top right in the link in my original post you will see phone numbers and e-mail addresses for David Keck and Rick Royer. They are the planning people. Dave is in Sacramento and Rick is apparently acting superintendant or something at Sonoma Coast State Park. The public comments were supposed to go to Rick.

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=22591


Please read up on the issue, educate! and write a letter regarding the proposed permits. Include what climbing means to you at Sunset Rock, how long have you been climbing there, what changes have you seen, if any, and be sure so state your position on what you think about recreational climbers needing a permit. Specifically we want to mention how climbers have been stewards of the rocks by doing annual clean ups and removing all that horrendous grafitti.

I wrote mine, sent it to all three e-mail addresses on that page, and am going to send a hardcopy as well.
Manifest the Psych
User avatar
Dodrill
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Sebastohole

Postby learnin2climb » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:51 pm

Looks like the Department plans to evaluate the significance of user impact on Sunset Boulders before making any drastic changes.

PAGE 2-111 – 2-112, PROTECTION OF ROCKS BELOW PEAKED HILL:
The rocks below Peaked Hill (known by local climbers as Sunset Rock or Sunset Boulders) are thought to be a significant with prehistoric animal rubbings. It also is an uncontrolled publicly accessible rock-climbing area in Sonoma County and, as such, attracts significant use by climbers, whose use could lead to deterioration of the resource. Evaluation and final determination of significance should be made on the “Rubbing Rock” as a significant paloeontological feature. Once this is completed, the Department will determine the appropriate management treatment for protection of this feature. The evaluation of the potential dedication of the site as a Cultural Preserve is included in the General Plan.

We need to start formulating a plan of action and if possible should be involved with the state's evaluation. I suggest that we first determine when the Department of Parks and Recreation plans to start their evaluation process and when policies could change. This will provide a time frame enabling us to prioritize our actions. We should also find out who is leading the evaluation process to determine if we, as climbers, currently a legitimate user group, would be able to assist in the evaluation, both in planning and execution.

I agree with Mo that we need to educate ourselves and understand others concerns. This will help with the planning aspect of the evaluation.


A couple of other ideas:

Does anyone out there have photos of Sunset Boulders that include the "Rubbings". I propose that we compare old (~10-20 yrs old) photos with recent photos taken from the same perspective. These might be useful for determining if the sensative areas may or may not have been altered beyond natural weathering.

Also, would it be too late/soon to add a notice in all climbing related forums, trailheads, guide books (both virtual and physical) that Sunset Boulders is a sensitive area with hypothesized Mammoth rubbings, alerting everyone of the potential access issues?
learnin2climb
Hopeless Cyberclimber
 
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:55 pm

Postby rimfounder » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:16 am

The point that is being missed is that "climbers" are being targeted as the problem at those rocks. It does not mention any other user group.

What "they" (dont want to use terms that the ethics patrol will reinterpret :lol: ) dont reolize is that the climbers ie RIM Club etc have done more good for those rocks then the costal commission ect combined. The trail system and and damage to the "rubbings" can hardly be proved to be from climber impact. In fact it has not. That is the case. How can they make assurtions with out adequite proof.

In fact I am outraged that after meeting with us they still see us as the culprets,
H
rimfounder
Hopeless Cyberclimber
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:59 am
Location: Earth

Postby Moji » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:36 pm

good input L2C!
I think it's very true that so called "climbers" are inappropriately targeted here.
User avatar
Moji
Infliction affliction addiction
 
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: real time

PreviousNext

Return to Access and Safety

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron